The Official Joker Thread

[UrbanLegend]

I'm also going to back Crispin Glover as Mista J.



Edit: Found this on google

[TheShadow]

Alright, my only criticism of Crispin toward the role is...I'm not sure if he has the ability to pull it off. Now, I've only seen him in clips of Willard and the first Charlie's Angels, so if there's any movie he's in where he's pretty Joker-like, let me know and I'll try to check it out. Anyways, he can be freaky and dangerous. But...it's just not the way I can see working with Joker. The freaky craziness is more like the Scarecrow: timid, reserved guy who goes off the deep end. His once quiet and polite voice becomes freaky when he threatens to kill you.

What I always want to see in casting Joker is if the actor can be completely believable when he's hyper and maniacal (as in cackling while running away from Batman, acting unpredictably, having loud outbursts when you least expect it, etc.): He doesn't look like he's making a fool out of himself. To me, this is KEY. An actor who can play good villains is not enough. A guy who just happens to look like the character is not enough. At least, not for me.

So anyways, I have trouble visualizing Glover being like that. Plus, his voice just doesn't seem to fit with it, to me.

Anyways...that's my take, but if you truly believe he can do it and that I'm wrong...I'd be glad to be proven wrong and join the several Crispin Glover-for-Joker supporters.

[kovacs]

**Adam Sandler??Robin Williams?C'mon folks that is ridiculous,why not throw in 50 cent in while we're at it.I think Adrian brody and Crispin Glover would be closer,not perfect but alot better!The jokers in the indie films (BATMAN :Dead End,Grayson...can be seen at comics2film.com)are way better than those 2 .Batman Begins has started out with a bang let's not screw it up !Do I have to remind you of AH-NOLD,(chill)

[TheShadow]

Well, nobody's actually suggested Robin Williams or Adam Sandler, they've just been rumored and practically no one I know agrees with those suggestions.

IMO, Adrian Brody, Tim Roth, Benicio Del Toro, Johnny Depp, Jude Law, Paul Bettany, and Sean Penn all have the acting potential to be great Jokers. Some on the list may be a bit old or a bit too famous, but I think all of them have the potential and have been either rumored or are fan favorites at other places.

And speaking of Sean Penn, I ran into this crazy site that really wants him to get it. seanthejoker.com

[UrbanLegend]

Sean Penn just seems a little old, but that's just me.

[poison_ivy]

Apparently Vincent Cassel is being considered for Joker. I tried to post the link to the article but keep getting the message 'Thanks for visiting Bat Nation' :/

[kovacs]

**I think the Joker should be an unknown or relatively unknown.If you go with an A list star you'll immediately know it's him trying to play the Joker,and that might pull you out of the movie. I wouldn't want Sean Penn for that fact,Tim Roth is a wicked character actor who could totally pull it off,actually so could Paul Bettany .People know who they are but are not sure what they've played.As for Two Face ...Clive Owen that is all I say!!

[batmanfan828]

you think sean penn is to old what about jack nicolson is was like in his late 50- early 60's. and he still pulled it off i think Adrien Brody would be the right man for the job after seeing the jacket.

[TheShadow]

Steve Carell from the upcoming The 40 Year Old Virgin has been RUMORED to be in consideration by WB, according to BOF. BOF's Jett says to not take it too seriously.

Meanwhile...I just saw Virtuosity and man...do I have the most left field choice of all!!!!

Russell Crowe.

You're probably thinking "Talented actor, but Joker material? Hell no."

But watch Virtuosity. Trust me.
1. It's a much better Denzel Washington-out-for-revenge film than Man on Fire, which I found to be boring, over-depressing, and convuluted.
2. A more Batman-centric reason...Russell Crowe basically plays the Joker in this, minus the white face, green hair, and red lips. He wears a purple suit for a good middle section of the movie.

In Virtuosity, Russell plays Sid 6.7, a virtual reality program that is composed of over 200 different homicidal maniac personalities. He gets into the real world (don't ask how. It's quite ridiculous) and starts killing people.

The laugh? He's got it.

The intense eyes? He's got it.

The smile? Definitely has it.

The voice? A Joker-esque voice came out a few times. Can definitely be altered a little more. Crowe is talented enough to come up with his own different voice for Mr. J. Just compare his voice in Cinderella Man to his voice in Gladiator to his voice in this film.

But most of all...that insane quality. This character mixes comedy with horror. There are so many scenes in this one that screamed Joker. Off the top of my head... (contains minor spoilers)

Russell takes an entire club hostage. What does he do? He records all of their various screams. Some individuals. Some in groups. He then puts it all together into a "symphony" and then at the end of the scene, he tries to conduct a crescendo of screams right before Denzel comes to the rescue.

Russell taunts Denzel in attempts to drive him over the edge during a car chase.

Russell, upon first looking at himself, says "I'm beautiful." He's a very vain character in this one. He goes into a store (with a purple suit on) and turns on all the televisions to the news channel that covers what he did at the club. He loves to hear the press cover his "work."

Russell taunts Denzel further with a hostage. I won't tell you what happens here, but it's horrific and Russell just laughs it off.

Russell further taunting Denzel. "Just because I have the joy inside me of killing your wife and daughter......doesn't me we can't still be friends." Devilish delivery.

Russell takes a television station hostage and broadcasts a whole bunch of Joker-like insane comments, again mixing comedy with horror. He brings a hostage up to the camera and starts interviewing him. He plays around with the guy, putting a gun in the hostage's mouth and such.

The final confrontation with Denzel. Russell smiles and tells the hero that he's "lost his sense of humor." It's really a dangerous fight, but Russell is extremely hyper and cheers, ala the BTAS Joker.

Trust me there's other stuff I'm probably forgetting that'll just scream Joker to you...

This would be a really left field choice, but I think Russell could do it. It would be akin to Oldman's casting.

[kovacs]

**Russel Crowe??That is out of leftfield ,I'm not saying it wouldn't work ,he's a great actor but..When I think of Joker ,I think gangly,psychotic ,very unpredictable.I don't know if you've seen the 2 independent films..Batman DEAD END, Grayson.The Joker was the villian in both and he was done well in both.In Grayson he actually seemed frightening ,it was done exceptionally well for no budget .For my money I still think Crispin Glover is the man.If you've seen Charlie's Angels you'll know what I mean

[TheShadow]

He is psychotic and very unpredictable in Virtuosity. His role in that is the most Joker-like character I've seen that wasn't actually the Joker. I know that it's very hard to imagine him doing all those things I listed, but you'd have to see the film to believe it. It's a far cry from his usual jagged hero roles.
The main con against him is that he's a bit bulky for the part. He's hardly "thin." I'm not saying he's fat, but he's built like a football player, which is why he's known more for his roles in Gladiator, Master and Commander, and Cinderella Man. Otherwise, his brilliant Joker acting could totally take away from people's perspective of his previous work, just like Keaton with Batman.
He's not my first choice, but I have more faith in him than a lot of other names I've heard.

I've seen Dead End and Grayson. I didn't like Dead End all that much. The make-up was very good apart from the eyebrows. The acting was so-so and I didn't like the voice. What mainly ruined the film was the script, in my opinion. Grayson is a great fan film. And had a great look for Joker, although the actor never got to deliver any lines.

I'm sorry, but I have never been convinced that Crispin Glover could pull off the maniacal side of Joker.
For starters, I have to acknowledge that he definitely has the look (moreso than Crowe). He also fights really well, as seen in Charlie's Angels, and it would be sweet to finally see a Joker that could take on Batman in a fight. Jack Nicholson's Joker practically got his butt handed to him by Keaton in B89.
I just can't see him play the hyper, extroverted side of Joker. I'd basically have to see the screen test to be convinced. Unpredictability is one of the most important factors that I see in Joker and I have yet to see it from him when he delivers lines and such. He may be a good villain in Charlie's Angels...but he has no lines. At least, from what I remember. And ability to deliver lines in a psychotic funny way is on the top of my list for essential Joker qualities.
He is pretty good at playing the timid, reserved individual who you suddenly view as creepy when he starts doing bad things. He was my #1 choice for Scarecrow because of this, actually. But Joker is a whole different ballgame. He creeps you out because of how quick and hyper he is. I want to see a Joker who can be funny in situations where you're not supposed to laugh. I want to see a Joker who just explodes out of nowhere. Basically a Joker with mood swings. Check out the Mad Love comic. It's got a great scene in which Joker is calmly talking to Harley on the phone and then suddenly yells, "YOU'VE GOT WHO??? TIED UP WHERE???!!" It's my favorite Joker scene ever and the epitome of his personality. I just can't see Crispin do that in a convincing way.

[TheShadow]

I think this is going to help us in this thread...

I'm going to list basically ALL of the Joker traits that I've heard on other forums and YOU can list those traits in your order of importance.

For example:
1. Maniacal, unpredictable, and impulsive.
2. Versatility
3. Bale Chemistry
4. Humility
5. A nack for comic timing, including when you shouldn't really be laughing.
6. An evil creepy villain.
7. Lack of Familiarity
8. Creepy laugh that sends chills up your spine
9. A villain who challenges the order of the world and submerges himself into chaos after encountering tragedy.
10. Obsessed with Batman to the point of not commiting crimes without him.
11.Crazy, slightly high pitched voice
12. Looks younger than Nicholson a.k.a. 30-45 years of age.
13. Ability to physically take on Batman in a fight.
14. Thin in face and stature
15. Tall

I think it's more important that we address our vision of what the Joker would be and THEN try to fit that with each of the popular Joker choices that I've seen pop up all over forums.

Let me provide examples:

Does everybody want a Joker who can fight well?
Crispin Glover and Vincent Cassel are there.

Does everybody want a Joker with comedic experience?
Jude Law and Johnny Depp would be good.

Want a Joker who can be truly evil with lots of experience playing villains?
Tim Roth and Willem Dafoe are the men for the job.

JOKER CHARACTERISTICS

I will organize this into three sections:
Looks- What the actor should physically look like
Acting- What acting traits would be most important for Joker
General Protrayal- What traits should be brought across when a Joker actor plays the role

You DO NOT have to organize your rank of importance into three sections. It is entirely up to you as long as you clearly list what you find are the most important characteristics of Joker

Looks:
Relatively tall in height. 5'8"-6'3" seems to be a reasonable range. (Cillian Murphy himself is 5'9", yet nobody complained).

Thin in face and stature.

Has to look younger than Nicholson did (something I've heard from a lot of people). The range of the popular fan choices is from 30-45 years of age.

Acting:

This is a bit tricky, folks. I've done my best to categorize this...

Versatility: being able to take on any side of the Joker whether it's a lousy comedian, a sad but loving husband and father, a mobster, an inept thief, a calmly smiling friendly jokester, a chillingly calm, dark, sadistic psychopath, a laughing maniac, a gleeful murderer, and a cunningly calculating criminal. Basically being able to balance the horror and comedy of the character's actions.

Lack of Familiarity: Are unknowns better than well known actors, even if said actors can play the part well? A complete unknown with excellent acting skills could blow away audiences and make them truly believe that they're watching THE Joker. A more well known actor could possibly lose that illusion, especially if tied to his previous work.

Humility: Being able to let the spotlight focus on Bale for a majority of the film. This has been one of the main criticisms about Jack Nicholson- that he stole the show from Michael Keaton in B89.

Bale Chemistry: Being able to play off well opposite Bale. One of my friends described it like this: "Chemistry with Bale is another important characteritic and almost as vital as the two that I have already mentioned. There is and has always been a strange connection between Batman and the Joker and that must come off well on the silver screen. If I were Nolan, I would not cast any actor for the role without having him read through a few scenes with Bale."

Crazy, slightly high pitched voice

Creepy laugh that sends chills up your spine

General Protrayal
A nack for comic timing, including when you shouldn't really be laughing.
Example: I'm tempted to laugh when I read Joker's joke about a damaged library book in The Killing Joke. But I feel extremely guilty considering that he's juxtaposing it with a bloody, paralyzed Barbara Gordon.

Maniacal, unpredictable, and impulsive.
Example: In Mad Love when Harley calls up Joker to say that she captured Batman. He's calmly scrounging through his papers when the phone rings...and when he picks it up he yells "WHAT!!!!" and then calms back down again. "Harley? Where the heck are you...uh-huh...yeah, yeah...mmm...Batman, eh? Well, you don't say," and then suddenly, out of nowhere..."YOU HAVE WHO?? TIED UP WHERE??!!!!" Again, unpredictable in his demeanor.

An evil creepy villain.
Example: In Mask of the Phantasm when Joker tells Phantasm that he'll be found "without spleen or head" before blowing up the top floor of Valestra's house.

Ability to physically take on Batman in a fight.
Example: In Batman #1, in his very first encounter with Batman...he practically kicks the Dark Knight's @$$.

A villain who challenges the order of the world and submerges himself into chaos after encountering tragedy.
Example: Another friend of mine described this perfectly. There are two responses to tragedy: crying or laughing it off. Joker is the type that laughs it off. Here, he describes the type of person who laughs it off...

"They would have seen the inevitable pointlessness of life, that all that people hold dear could be obliterated in the blink of an eye, that life itself was a joke as no matter what you do or strive for it will all be stolen from you in the end. The Joker is laughing at the world for taking everything so seriously, and feels compelled to share his understanding by showing everyone how any life can end without rhyme or reason.
This is the justification he has created in his mind to avoid facing the pain of his past, and he has done everything possible to erase the importance of his past life from his mind. The only way he can continue to justify his mindset is by proving it to himself and the world, over and over again. When simply murdering ceases to seem enough, he sets himself the new challenge of proving that violent, senseless death can come for you even when you know it approaches and do everything in your power to stop it. He challenges the police, Batman, Gotham, all of the world to prove him wrong, and they cannot. If that ever ceases to seem enough, he might try to prove that ANYONE being forced through enough tragedy and horror would inevitably end up sharing his point of view, though they likely wouldn't end up laughing about it..."


Obsessed with Batman to the point of not commiting crimes without him.
Example: As described by a friend of mine "I want to see a moment in which the Joker refuses to "perform" without Bats around to be his captive audience. This keeps the whole escalation problem in line, as the debate will emerge in Gotham as to whether or not the freaks would go away if Batman did. In DKR, the Joker was not heard from the entire time Batman was retired and only began killing again after Batman returned. I like that dynamic and hope to see something along those lines. It is as if the Joker is endlessly trying to prove his point to Batman that chaos is better, more fun, and more realistic than order. He is already leaving a calling, card, which means that he is looking for the Batman's attention."

So from that list of traits come up with repeat that list, but in your order of importance, like what I did above.

If we do this right, we can determine exactly what kind of protrayal we want for Joker before we can decide which actor would best suit him. This should be better than arguing over suitable actors, IMO.

[kovacs]

**Shadow you have a lot of good points regarding the Joker.I personally think going with an unknown is a great idea ,he has to be stellar though!I think he has to be physically imposing in that he should be some what of a threat to Batman.I think he should have a IGGY POP /Bandon Lee.CROW build to him balance with a homicidal streak to him that makes him unstable and very dangerous.The Joker on Dead End kinda had the look facewise, but physically had the body of an eight year old boy.If Batman can't beat him ..he should give up crimefighting.I'd personally like to see Batman going at it with the Joker in the rain .The Joker would have his clothes ripped holding two meat cleavers laughing like an insane lunatic as he slashes away at Batman.What do you think?If you want to see my version of the Joker would look like go to dragonberry.com and look me up under artist section(tony seretis)On a side note,if you want to see the perfect TWO FACE watch Constantine and look for Gavin Rossdale.

[TheShadow]

I've found some great stuff on Paul Bettany, who has been heavily rumored to be up for the role.

He's young, British, and seems to be the type of actor Nolan would cast in a Batman film.

Plus, he's physically suited for the part. He's tall at 6'3" (which is one inch taller than Bale) and in Wimbledon, he showed off some muscles- I imagine that he could handle himself well in a physical fight with Bale's Batman.

Oh yeah, and check out that smile:

www.paulbettany.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=1005&fullsize=1

For more pictures of Paul from Gangster No. 1, check this site out
www.paulbettany.net/gallery/index.php?cat=10

Check out the trailer for Gangster No. 1 on this site for footage of Bettany playing a psycho:
www.movie-list.com/g/gangsternumber1.shtml

Check this out:
www.paulbettany.net/main.php?trailers
Scroll down and catch a deleted scene of Gangster No. 1
WARNING!!!: This clip has REALLY REALLY strong language and graphic violence. But if you want to be convinced that Bettany can play a dangerous psycho...check it out. He even sounds like a British Mark Hamill at one point- "What am I going to do with you??!!!"

www.paulbettany.net/main.php?sounds
Sound clips. I recommend A Knight's Tale's "Introducing William." It's a great comedic monologue.
Also, if you check out the Dogville sound clips, you'll find that he can do a believable American accent. He could easily Americanize his crazy voice from his Knight's Tale monologue into a Joker voice.

After viewing and hearing these clips, I believe that Paul Bettany is the best fit out of all the rumored candidates.

[gianakin]

Yo've done some good research there,Shadow!I must say though,after all that,I wouldn't dare to choose anyone excpet if I was heavily involved with the movie!I just think that given the high expectation,I wouldn't have the courage to pick someone who could later be proven to be a failure...Tough choice,although I'm sure they'll pull it off eventually...